INTERVIEW – Justin Greaves (Crippled Black Phoenix)
Published on October 12, 2011 by Dave Sutton · No Comments
Over the years, Justin Greaves has been a part of several bands, most notably as the drummer of both Iron Monkey and Electric Wizard. Now he is the mastermind behind Crippled Black Phoenix; a band that has crafted epic, soaring pieces of emotional, sombre music across four albums over the last five years.
2011 has seen the band play many live shows from London to China and they are currently working on their upcoming fifth studio album. Set to hit the road again in November, Justin takes the time to talk to us about his current band, their new album and his experiences of being part of today’s music industry.
What can you tell us about the new album? Have you finished working on it? Do you have a release date in mind?
“We just finished the final mix of the album, it has not been mastered yet though. I think the plan is to release it at the end of January, so I’m told anyway, you never know with these things, so I’ll believe it when I see it, but this time with the new label (Mascot) everything seems more organised and more efficient. About the album? Well, I think the feel of it is more focused and a bit more straight-to-the-point. Maybe this is the CBP ‘rock album’, I mean, there are the usual miserable parts and dark/subversive subject matter, but more than the previous albums, there’s a sense of defying the misery with black humour, more than ever I feel like fighting back against real-world knock backs and mental issues with songs that are more uncompromising and just that bit stronger. I think I can speak for everyone who played on the album when I say we’re all very pleased with the results and I have a strong conviction with it, which has not always been the case. One reason I think this album is stronger is that we got the opportunity to record it at Chapel Studio in Lincolnshire, it was like being home for me as I grew up in that area and I felt strangely relaxed being there, even though it was really tough at times to get things done logistically. It was mostly just me and Karl shut away from the world, not communicating with the outside, and this created a new level of concentration, although I think at times we started to go partially crazy.”
Crippled Black Phoenix have a history of making long albums – A Love of Shared Disasters and The Resurrectionists are both over 70 minutes and I hear you are set to top that with the new album exceeding 80 minutes. Do you personally prefer listening to longer albums and do you set out with the intention of creating albums of this length, or is it a more organic process?
“Well, the last album was only 45 minutes, so that broke the chain I guess. I do like long albums though, most of my favourite albums are made that way and I definitely appreciate recordings that are meant to be listened to as one big piece of music, so that of course influences what I do with CBP albums. But having said that, I don’t think it’s really intentional, it’s basically a case of recording the songs I have ready at that time, and when I put the album together I only use the songs that make sense to create an album, that’s what dictates the length of the albums. We only think about the length when it becomes an issue of fitting it onto CD or vinyl, but then we come up with a way of releasing it as the complete thing, and being as uncompromising about it as possible. I believe it’s the music that dictates to us and we are merely tools to get it into the real world, kind of like custodians of the musical story…just trying not to fuck it up. In that respect, it is an organic process.”
Previous Crippled Black Phoenix albums have been released a significant time after they were recorded: why was this and are you happy to be releasing the new album much closer to when you’ve completed it?
“Yeah, I’m glad you noticed that. All the other albums, with the exception of I, Vigilante were recorded over a long period of time and then it took ages to get them released, so as a result, some of the songs on each album were already 1 or 2 years old by the time of release, that was always frustrating because personally I like to move on quite quickly and I don’t tend to dwell on the past, so when people think a song or an album is representative of the present, it’s quite a delicate thing to keep explaining that it is, in fact, an old recording, and I feel like people need to hear what’s going on with the music as and when it’s written. I’m really happy to have the album released a lot closer to when it was written and recorded, I think it frees the mind to move forward instead of going over old ground all the time. It also means when people are talking and asking about the current album, it’s still fresh in the mind, so in that way, everything including mind-set, is a lot more focused.”
The line-up of the band has changed many times over the years, most recently with Daisy leaving. How have these changes impacted the band? Do you anticipate many more changes to come?
“The line-up changes is something that I find sometimes frustrating but I accept it and move on because it’s always difficult to find a ‘band’ of 7 or 8 players who are all committed to the cause and think the same too, and I don’t ever expect to have a stable full line-up. It would be great if we did establish a more solid membership though, there are obvious benefits to play with the same people for years. I’ve been playing with Karl for nearly 10 years on and off, and he joined CBP in 2008. But constant changes do impact the live band in a way where every tour will be slightly different if the players are different, this can be a blessing and a curse. We just want to find the right people, and for a couple of years we have been very solid with the same line-up, but there were always little things that were never quite right, so at some point you got to think, the music comes first and there’s nothing wrong in getting it right even if tough choices have to be made from time to time. Sometimes it’s the individual’s decision, like with Daisy, the departure was her own choice and she called me to tell me she wants to go do her own solo thing, and that’s totally fine, it was very amicable. You see, this band is a weird beast, it’s not the regular type of operation, everyone in the band have their own projects or other bands apart from myself, I just have to carry on and accept that, it’s no problem for me really as long as the other musical commitments don’t interfere with CBP, it just means that occasionally someone might decide they can’t commit the time in this band. The timing of Daisy leaving and changing the live drummer could have been better, what with the new album and some shows coming up, but I do feel actually more positive about the band in general and there is now a core of stable full-time members, which there never really was before two years ago and there’s much more of an input when it comes to running the band business, that can only be a good thing. Who knows if we’ll have more changes in the future, of course I hope not, but to be honest, if the music sounds right, that shouldn’t really be an issue.”
You recorded your 2nd and 3rd albums at the same time and, although they were released in full in a limited edition boxset, the main release was a single disc compilation of just some of the tracks from the two albums: what were the reasons behind this?
“I see the main release as the boxset with both albums, but popular perception is that the album was just the 200 Tons issue. To me that album doesn’t make any sense, but I can understand the reasons the label wanted to do that, I think they were worried no one would buy a 2-cd boxset off the shelf, and also that the press wouldn’t listen to it. So, I can totally agree that the press most likely would not listen to both full albums, but we proved everyone wrong with the sales thing, when the boxset was pressed, it was that which sold out quick. We must have listeners who can appreciate the art of making albums, not collections of singles… and those people, those fans, I really appreciate.”
How satisfied (or not) are you with the amount of commercial success you have received? Is this important to you and do you think the band is ever likely to gain more recognition with the music industry as it currently is?
“Personally, as most people will probably have guessed by now, I’m not concerned with popularity or commercial success, but that’s maybe just me I guess, my idea of success is measured in terms of happiness and being able to carry on doing what I want to do, what I love doing, and be able to be proud of it at the same time as paying the bills and not losing money. I mean, who wouldn’t want to make their living doing something they love? Although I don’t make enough to live on by far, I’d rather keep my integrity, and the integrity of the band name and we accept the fact that it’s the harder, longer way to do things. As a band, we sometimes struggle with the lack of financial backing and we don’t have any management to subsidise the business end of things, but we do have enough conviction in what we do to be able to carry on, and whatever comes our way, whether it’s artistic reward or financial reward, we can say it’s a bonus and we earned it… it’s like paying for something in cash, if you want something nice, you work, save hard and then it’s rightfully yours… I never liked credit cards, and selling out to gain commercial success would be like a credit card, it’s not really your hard work that’s earned you the right to it. I don’t know if we will ever get more recognition, I wouldn’t turn my back on it, but I do feel comfortable with the amount of success we’re achieving (or not). In fact, the first tune on the new album is kind of about this subject, it’s called Nothing (We Are…) and it’s pretty much a statement of knowing your place in the big scheme of things and being ok with it, being modest and uncompromising about where the band fits in the music business.”
What do you think of the music industry today?
“I think it’s basically F.U.B.A.R. However, I do hold on to some hope of things getting better in the future, but as long as it’s continually homogenised and devalued by the mainstream, media and certain TV shows, and also devalued by free internet download thievery, it’s not going to recover any time soon. It seems everything is fractured in to ever decreasing sized ‘scenes’, thanks to a lot of new computer software and of course the internet, anyone can make shite music and give it away, as a result, we’re faced with so much utter crap, it’s more difficult to find the good music that is still being made by great artists. I think it’s more about availability and the amount of choice that is starting to strangle the industry, the lack of availability of good innovative music and the amount of choice of rubbish, boring and formulaic tripe.”
You’ve stated that Crippled Black Phoenix are not a “post-rock” band. How would you describe your band’s music and do you think genres are important?
“I think I’ve given up on trying to ascertain what exactly CBP music is, I think the only time genre definement is useful is when describing music to a friend because everyone has their own opinions about what it should be tagged as, so when you put what one person perceives out there in the world of press and marketing, it usually won’t make sense to everyone, and usually it’s the band or artist themselves that feel the slight injustice. I say that because however much we shouldn’t care about what people want to tag the band with, it can snowball out of control and end up putting people off listening or disappointing those who do while expecting something different, so in a small way, it can be detrimental. I don’t personally think genres are important, it doesn’t matter to me what genre of music something is, if I like it, I like it no matter what. As for the ‘post-rock’ thing, I just hope by now people can drop that. I’m not being snobbish about it, but I just don’t think we’re a ‘post-rock’ band, we don’t really have anything to do with that scene, maybe it came from certain ex-band members other bands…I don’t know, but it’s getting boring now.”
Where does the name Crippled Black Phoenix come from? Were there any other names you considered when forming the band?
“It actually comes from the lyrics of my old band that existed in the 90’s, I used it a few times for various projects and took it as my name on an album I recorded with some guys from other bands when we didn’t want our own names to be used… (But then the label released it with a big sticker on the front naming us all…!). Anyway, it’s basically just stuck with me over the years and has grown to mean different things and unintentionally it relates to the way I started this band and the reasons for it, so for me it just works, even though I’m well aware of it not being very ‘catchy’. There were some other names I considered at first, names like ‘De Host Varg’ (translates as ‘The Autumn Wolf’)… but that was way too pretentious. Or ‘The Whistler’ (I ended up using that one as a song title) or ‘ABC Warriors’ (which we actually used when we toured the US a few years ago, for reasons I cannot tell).”
You are known for writing sombre, melancholic music: is this a reflection of yourselves or do you consider it a reflection of the world around you? What sources do you draw on for inspiration?
“It’s definitely both the outside world and personal experience that dictates the mood of the music, it’s basically how I see things at the time of writing the songs, sometimes I feel the need to speak out about something, usually injustices or how shit things are, sometimes I want to get something off my mind, about how I feel within myself. I’m not a good ‘talker’, so I constantly have to put my feelings into the music to relieve the burden so-to-speak. The albums also have moments of hope and black humour, it’s not all melancholy, it really is about whatever mood I’m in. The first album was truly miserable, but that’s because I was miserable at the time, the new album is a lot more defiant and focused because it’s what I feel like doing right now. I do get inspired by a lot of things, mostly non-musical, but when something makes me think, that’s usually when I have an idea, most thoughts end up falling into the music part of my life, I’m also inspired by other band members when we’re recording, that’s always a good way of making music, if someone plays a part on a song that sparks off more ideas, and if it works, we use it. I’ve found that happening more recently. Basically everything can be an inspiration, sometimes in surprising ways, but it’s what you do with it that counts, I reckon.”
You have been known to use unusual quotes, both in your songs and in the album booklets – from Tennyson to Evil Kneivel to the notorious pirate and inspiration to us all, Edward Teach. What inspires you to use these sources? When incorporating them into the music, such as with Tennyson’s words used in “The Northern Cobbler”, do the words you’re quoting inspire the music you set them to? Can we expect any more historical references on the new album?
“Those sound bites and quotes are things that I’ve heard or read and they’ve stuck in my head, sometimes not inspiring any music, I just remember them because I like the sentiment or I relate to them, so when I come to writing a song, occasionally it tells me to use these words and voices to get across what the song is about or to create the mood I’m looking for. It’s a bit hit and miss, sometimes it works and sometimes not, but when I incorporated spoken word into the music in the past, it’s because when I listened to it, it meant something and made me feel like it’s a piece of music that breathes for itself. The Tennyson ballad was one where I wanted to use it because it’s a great old story about redemption, so I saved it away for ages, the recording I found on an old privately pressed 10” vinyl that’s been in my collection since I was young, I didn’t know how I could use it until I wrote the music, then the music made me think of the ballad, so I popped it in there and it worked a treat, luckily. I love quotes and the fact they can mean so much now, even when it’s a voice from the distant past, I think there are certain human traits and thoughts that have been the same throughout history, this I find interesting, and I also think that history is very important in a world that puts less and less importance on the past, after all, like Teach said “It’s only through history we truly exist”. As for the new album, there are historical references on there, like the song “Operation Mincemeat”, it’s a story about the military intelligence in WWII dumping a corpse of a tramp in the sea disguised as a British officer with fake documents to dupe the Germans in to thinking the Allies were invading Greece rather than Sicily, which was the actual plan.”
Which Crippled Black Phoenix songs are you most proud of or mean the most to you and why?
“Tough question. I tend to like the really miserable ones, like I Am Free, Today I Perished, or Song For The Loved or Littlestep because that song means something personal to me, although all the songs mean something to me, but that one especially. There are songs that I like to play live more than others, maybe I should be proud of those ones, Burnt Reynolds or 444, so really I don’t know how to answer, I just hope that in years to come I can look back and be proud of it all.”
When you play live, which have been your favourite places to perform? Do you find the crowds react differently in different countries? Are there any places you would like to play that you haven’t played thus far?
“I love Poznan. I also love Zagreb and the whole of Greece. I know I shouldn’t pick favourites but those places just seem like a kind of home from home, I mean they’re beautiful places to see, but more than that, it’s the people, I feel we have more of a connection somehow. I think everyone in the touring band will have their own preferences, but Poznan is kind of special, for a very good reason, I had a bad experience there some years ago while touring, and I left with a bad taste of the place, but then after years of not going back there, we went and played a CBP show and it just changed everything, it was such a great show and experience, it’s kind of like putting some demons to rest, and now we’re about to return for the third time and I can’t wait. People are different everywhere we go, it’s always interesting and that is something we love about what we do, and when we go somewhere new, it’s pretty exciting still, like being a child all over again… I guess we’re all just big kids who get to run away on an adventure every few months, who wouldn’t love that? I want to go play Mongolia.”
You have played numerous live shows this year and have more planned for November. With the new album set to be released in 2012, are you planning to tour again next year?
“Yep, I think the plan is to tour around February, March, something like that. I hope that happens, it’ll be the first time a tour and the album release will coincide, we tried to organise it like that in the past, but as usual the album got delayed or some shit, so it never worked for us. Having said that, I don’t think we need an album to go on tour, it does help of course and the label, promoters and business types would prefer it that way, but if people want to come see us and book us, then we’ll always leave our houses and go on an adventure.”
What are your plans or hopes for the future of Crippled Black Phoenix?
“I plan to occupy the nightmares of the music business, my hope is to bring down the shitehawks in control and make a new start, my hope is for a common-sense revolution. And as for CBP? Who the fuck knows? I hope it lasts a while longer and we live through it.”
For more information on Crippled Black Phoenix:
- Official site
- Facebook
Images used by permission of Crippled Black Phoenix.
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